ARGUING 
WITH  BOB 


Issued  by  authority  of  the  Classical 
Association  of  the  Middle  West 
and  South 


This  pamphlet  is  published  by  the 
Publicity  Committee  of  the  Classical 
Association  of  the  Middle  West  and 
South.  Copies  may  be  obtained  at  the 
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or  70  cents  a hundred  from  the  chair- 
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Address : 

Publicity  Committee, 

11  Hall  of  Liberal  Arts, 
Iowa  City,  Iowa. 


} P 75.85 
£&C.563a 


-c 
\ Z} 

Arguing  with  bob 


“What’s  the  matter,  Bob?  You  seem  to  be 
puzzled  about  something.” 

“Oh,  I can’t  do  this  Latin.  Won’t  you  let  me 
drop  it,  Dad?  I don’t  see  what  good  it’s  ever 
going  to  do  me  anyhow.” 

“Can’t  do  it?  You  don’t  mean  that.  Miss 
Gates  tells  me  you  do  it  very  well  and  that 
she  thinks  you  are  a boy  who  is  able  to  appre- 
ciate it  and  profit  by  it.  She  says,  however, 

* that  you  have  let  up  in  your  effort  lately.  Why 
the  slump?” 

“Well,  Joe  Fordham  has  dropped  it.  His 

* father  says  it  isn’t  practical  and  he  wants  Joe 
to  study  things  that  he  can  use.” 

“Ah,  I see.  You  have  got  under  the  cold- 
water  bath  of  the  ‘practical’  fellow,  have  you  ? 
Let  me  ask  you.  Do  you  especially  admire  the 
kind  of  an  education  that  Harvey  Fordham 
has?” 

“I  don’t  know.  I wish  you  had  as  much 
money  as  Mr.  Fordham  has.” 

“He  surely  can  make  money  — but  would 
you  call  him  an  educated  man?” 
f “No,  of  course  not.  All  he  thinks  of  is 
making  money.  I guess  I wouldn’t  want  him 
for  a father.  He  doesn’t  know  anything  but 
^soap,  and  Joe’s  getting  to  be  just  the  same.” 

“This  is  sort  of  an  argumentum  ad  homi - 
mem , I fear,  son,  if  you  get  the  sense  of  that 


Latin;  but  I want  you  to  get  the  idea  firmly  , 
fixed  in  your  brain  that  money  is  not  the  only 
thing  and  that  money-grubbers  rarely  give 
good  educational  advice,  although  the  nar- 
rower they  are  the  more  likely  they  are  to  1 
think  themselves  educational  experts.  It  is 
not  so  simple  a matter  to  be  educated.,, 

“Joe  says  his  father  says  he  wants  Joe  to 
know  how  to  earn  a living  the  first  thing/’ 

“So  do  I want  you  to  know  how  to  earn  a 
living.  But  any  one  can  do  that,  Bob.  One 
may  even  become  a millionaire  and  remain 
ignorant.  Isn’t  that  so?” 

“I  know  that.  Old  Perkins  is  as  rich  as 
anything,  and  his  stenographer  has  to  do  his 
spelling  for  him.  She  told  mother  ,so.  I 
heard  her.” 

“But  he  prides  himself  on  being  'practical’ 
and  gives  a lot  of  free  advice  to  the  school^ 
board.” 

“I  shouldn’t  want  to  be  like  him.  But 
what’s  the  use  of  studying  a dead  language? 
Why  not  study  French  and  German?” 

“I  want  you  to  study  French  and  German. 
But  you  have  plenty  of  time.  'Rome  was  not 
built  in  a day.’  You  are  to  live  for  a lifetime, 
my  boy.  You  can  afford  to  prepare  well.  But 
what  do  you  mean  by  a 'dead  language’  ?” 

“Why,  they  don’t  talk  Latin  any  more,  do 
they  ?” 

“Don’t  they?  I suppose  they  don’t  talk  Eng- 
lish any  more  either,  since  they  do  not  use 
the  speech  of  Chaucer.  Haven’t  you  learned 
that  Italian,  French,  Spanish,  Portuguese,  anc 
several  other  languages  are  almost  wholly 
Latin?  Latin  is  just  as  much  alive  as  French.” 

“You’ll  be  saying  next  that  Greek  is  alive.” 

“Indeed,  it  is,  and  it  has  been  alive  for  three 
thousand  years  in  speech  and  literature.  What 


language  do  you  suppose  they  talk  in  Greece 
^ to-day  ?" 

“I  don't  know.  I never  thought.  Do  they 
talk  Greek  the  same  as  they  used  to?” 
if  “Not  quite  the  same,  of  course,  but  the  mod- 
ern Greek  is  much  more  nearly  like  the  ancient 
Greek  than  modern  English  is  like  the  lan- 
guage of  Chaucer.  And  from  ten  to  twenty 
millions  of  people  speak  it  daily." 

“But  they  don't  learn  to  speak  Latin  or 
Greek  in  the  schools?" 

“Sometimes  they  do.  That  is  not  the  only 
test  of  the  value  of  learning  a language, 
however.  Any  hotel  clerk  or  barber  in  Europe 
can  speak  three  or  four  languages  besides  his 
own,  but  he  is  no  more  educated  than  the 
average  barber  or  clerk  in  America.” 

“Frank  Hamilton’s  father  says  he  wants  him 
, to  learn  to  speak  German  and  French  so  he 

* can  talk  when  he  goes  abroad." 

“Well  and  good.  But  not  one  out  of  a thou- 
sand boys  in  our  schools  will  ever  go  abroad.” 

* “But  there  are  lots  of  foreigners  in  this 
country." 

“And  in  three  months  after  they  arrive  they 
can  usually  talk  English  better  than  Frank 
will  be  able  to  talk  German  in  three  years. 
Conditions  in  America  are  different  from  what 
they  are  in  Europe,  and  there  are  better  rea- 
sons for  learning  a language  than  to  have  to 
speak  it." 

“Joe's  father  says  that  Anglo-Saxon  is  good 
enough  for  him." 

f “That  reminds  me.  I recently  read  the  ad- 
vice : ‘Avoid  Latin  derivatives.  Use  terse, 
pure,  simple  Saxon.'  How  many  Saxon  words 
do  you  suppose  there  are  in  those  two  sen- 
tences ?" 

“How  many?" 


“One;  the  word  ‘Saxon/  The  other  seven 
words  are  all  Latin.  Did  you  know  that  * 
three-fourths  of  the  words  in  English  are 
Greek  and  Latin?” 

“No.  Is  that  so?” 

“Yes,  and  the  Greek  and  Latin  and  Anglo- 
Saxon  words  usually  have  such  different  mean- 
ings. For  example,  ‘physician  is  Greek;  ‘doc- 
tor' is  Latin;  ‘healer'  is  Saxon.  You  couldn't 
use  ‘healer'  for  all  three  meanings,  could  you?” 

“How  did  all  those  Greek  and  Latin  words 
get  into  English?” 

“The  majority  of  them  entered  in  early  days 
as  the  language  was  developing.  Scores,  if  not 
hundreds,  of  words  are  coming  in  every  year. 
In  fact,  the  principal  additions  to  English  to- 
day come  from  Greek  and  Latin.  Such  words 
as  phonograph,  telescope,  and  dynamo  are 
Greek  and  have  come  in  with  the  inventions  ^ 
of  which  they  are  the  names.  Practically  all 
our  scientific  terms  are  Greek  or  Latin.  Take 
words  like  antiseptic,  clinic,  bacteria  — and  the 
best  joke  on  the  ‘practical’  man  is  that  the  l 
very  word  ‘practical’  is  Greek.” 

“Do  you  mean  that  a fellow  ought  to  study 
Latin  and  Greek  so  as  to  understand  Eng- 
lish?” 

“Precisely.  That  is,  if  he  expects  to  get 
more  than  a superficial  knowledge  of  English. 
He  ought  to  learn  more  English  by  the  study 
of  Greek  and  Latin  than  in  any  other  way.” 

“More  than  by  studying  English  itself?” 

“Quite  so.  Say  nothing  of  the  time  when 
his  own  advances  in  science  or  invention  may1 
make  it  necessary  for  him  to  bring  new  words 
into  the  language  himself.” 

“If  that  is  so,  I think  I begin  to  see  why  L 
should  keep  on  with  my  Latin.” 

“Well,  it  is  so.  And  there  are  other  rea- 


sons.  For  one,  the  study  of  these  rather  com- 
i plex  languages  teaches  you  the  structure  of 
your  own.  There  is  nothing  so  good  as  the 
practice  of  translating  to  make  one  able  to 
t understand  what  he  reads,  and  capable  of  ex- 
pressing his  own  thoughts  in  terse,  vigorous 
English.  Another  reason  is  that  the  litera- 
ture which  has  been  left  us  by  the  Greeks  and 
Romans  is  meatier  and  more  crowded  with 
thought  than  any  other  literature.  No  won- 
der it  has  served  as  a model  for  centuries. 
By  the  way,  here  is  still  another  reason.  Our 
best  English  writers  have,  fortunately,  been  so 
filled  with  Greek  and  Roman  thought  that 
they  cannot  be  fully  understood  by  one  who  is 
not  trained  in  the  same  way.” 

“Mr.  Hamilton  says  Latin  is  all  right,  if  you 
are  going  to  teach  Latin.” 

, “Well,  if  that  is  the  only  reason  for  the 
study,  it  would  be  better  to  cut  it  off  at  once. 
- Why  should  we  train  teachers  in  a useless  sub- 
ject so  that  they  may  teach  other  teachers  a 
* useless  subject?” 

“That  does  seem  absurd.” 

“If  the  classics  are  not  of  use  to  doctors 
and  lawyers  and  preachers  and  business  men, 
I for  one  should  be  willing  to  have  them 
abolished.” 

“Of  what  use  are  Greek  and  Latin  to  a law- 
yer ?” 

“For  one  thing,  they  make  him  better  ac- 
quainted with  his  mother  tongue  — and  he 
deals  largely  with  language,  you  know.  Then, 

* better  than  any  other  study,  they  teach  him 
, to  examine  evidence  with  care  and  to  weigh 
it  fairly.  They  mold  his  taste  and  give  him 
^power  to  discriminate.  They  sharpen  his  mind 
for  the  stern  business  of  his  profession.  That 
is  more  valuable  than  any  amount  of  knowl- 


edge  of  law  cases,  that  is,  if  he  is  to  be  any- 
thing else  than  mediocre.  Then  there  is  the  tj 
direct  value  of  the  classics  to  the  Christian 
minister.” 

“Yes,  I can  understand  that.  You  have  told  l 
me  before  that  the  New  Testament  is  written 
in  Greek.” 

“Not  only  that,  but  the  Old  Testament  too 
comes  to  English  readers  through  the  Greek 
translation  rather  than  through  the  Hebrew 
Of  course  the  minister  must  study  other 
things,  social  science  and  the  like,  but  he  can- 
not really  know  the  book  on  which  his  religion 
is  based  unless  he  knows  the  Greek.” 

“How  about  the  physician?” 

“I  have  told  you  that  the  language  of  sci- 
ence is  largely  Greek  and  Latin.  The  physician 
who  does  not  know  these  in  the  original 
learns  his  technical  language  only  as  a jargon. 

It  is  hard  to  think  that  he  could  create  any  A 
part  of  it  for  himself,  if  he  is  anxious  to  pro- 
gress that  far.” 

“Well,  I don't  know  what  I want  to  become,  'i 
Maybe  I will  become  an  engineer.” 

“Wait  a moment.  Let  me  get  this  book. 
Here!  See  what  a distinguished  professor  of 
engineering  says  about  his  own  studies : With 
a retrospect  of  twenty  years,  it  seems  to  me 
I am  warranted  in  saying  that  I could  have 
better  spared  any  other  course  that  I took  in 
high  school  than  the  Latin.'  That  opinion 
ought  to  be  worth  something.  While  I have 
the  book  open,  see  what  this  Chicago  lawyer 
says:  ‘We  cannot  forget  that,  with  very  few< 
exceptions,  lawyers  who  have  come  to  dis- 
tinguish themselves  in  their  profession  and  to 
be  of  use  to  the  world  have  come  through 
Latin  or  through  Greek.'  A famous  minister 
and  professor  of  theology  says  here : ‘What- 


. ever  phase  is  given  to  other  methods  of  train- 

* ing  for  special  work,  Latin  and  Greek  will  re- 
main as  a necessary  part  of  the  equipment  of 
the  theological  scholar/  Here  is  the  testimony 

f of  a well-known  and  wealthy  New  York  busi- 
ness man:  ‘A  classical  education  is  a large 
asset  for  any  business  man.  His  equipment 
for  his  life  work  is  that  much  better,  and  will 
prove  to  be  so  in  increasing  measure  as  he 
rises  to  positions  of  responsibility  and  influ- 
ence in  his  business  and  elsewhere/  " 

“I  ^surely  didn't  know  that  these  big  fellows 
thought  so  much  of  the  classics/' 

“Unfortunately  some  of  them  do  not.  On 
some  who  have  studied  them  the  classics  have 
been  wasted,  but  thousands  of  the  best  of  these 
men  see  the  value  of  classical  studies.  There 
are  many  reasons,  too,  that  you  are  now  too 
y young  to  understand.  We’ll  talk  about  this 
again  some  day." 

“I  suppose  I ought  to  go  over  and  look  at 
^ Jack's  guinea  pigs  now." 

* “Ha ! ha ! All  right,  old  man.  Just  let  me 
read  you  this  one  paragraph  from  a rich  New 
York  banker.  It  will  be  good  stuff  for  you  to 
think  about  till  next  time.  This  man  says : 

“ ‘The  great  and  legitimate  aim  of  a busi- 
ness man  is  to  make  money,  to  provide  for 
himself  and  his  family  such  luxuries  and  com- 
forts as  his  tastes  and  social  standing  de- 
mand. But  when  a man  has  reached  the  goal 
of  his  desires,  when  he  has  made  his  pile  and 
desires  to  enjoy  it,  then  comes  the  time  for 
the  making  of  the  real  and  only  balance  sheet. 
^ Then  he  must  ask  himself,  “What  are  my  re- 
sources, now  that  I have  everything  that 
> money  can  buy?  What  are  my  spiritual  and 
intellectual  assets?  How  can  I best  spend 
what  is  left  to  me  of  life?"  Lucky  is  the  man 


whose  early  training  fits  him  for  something 
more  than  the  golf-field,  or  the  tennis-court,  * 
and  for  something  better  than  the  gaming- 
table when  his  days  of  business  activity  are 
over.  He  can  taste  the  gentler  pleasures  that  i) 
await  him  in  his  study  and  by  the  blazing 
hearth-fire.  His  Sophocles,  or  his  Plato,  his 
Catullus  or  his  Cicero,  will  make  the  winter 
of  life  seems  like  its  early  spring  when  the 
greatest  struggle  he  knew  was  with  the  elusive 
rules  of  grammar  and  syntax.  This  busy 
world  of  ours  cannot  stop : it  will  always 
whirl  and  rush  and  hustle.  But  some  of  us  — 
and  the  more  the  better  — must  learn  that  on 
one  side  of  the  rushing  stream  of  life  lie  the 
peaceful  backwaters,  in  which  the  clouds  and 
the  sun,  the  shrubs  and  the  birds  of  the  air  ap- 
pear reflected  in  their  true,  undistorted  image, 
gently  flowing  on  the  limpid  pool  of  reverie/  ” ^ 
“Well,  I guess  I don’t  want  to  drop  the  " 
Latin,  father.  I can  do  it  if  I want  to.  L, 
suppose  I’ll  get  on  to  the  ‘why’  of  it  better 
later  on.  So  long,  Dad,  I’m  off.”  ? 


“Mankind  exists,  or  should  exist,  not  to  live 
only,  but,  as  Aristotle  defines  it,  to  live  nobly. 
A noble  and  enjoyable  life  demands  an  imag- 
inative participation  in  all  that  the  human  race 
has  done,  or  said,  or  thought,  that  is  excellent. 
The  outcasts  of  Poker  Flat,  in  Mr.  Bret 
Harte's  tale,  consoling  their  last  hours  with  the 
Jstory  of  Asheels  in  Pope's  Iliad,  were  living  a 
nobler  life  than  the  comfortable  citizen,  who 
*Teads  newspapers,  and  nothing  but  newspapers 
sfrll  day,  and  wakens  with  a fresh  appetite  for 
mis  morning  journal.  To  keep  up,  to  diffuse, 
as  far  as  we  may,  interest  in  the  best  literature, 
is  the  duty  of  all  who  have  been  educated  and 
called  to  this  task." 


— Andrew  Lang. 


THE  TORCH  P 
CEDAR  RAP 
IOWA 


